Engine Trends - Turbo Vs Naturally Aspirated

[B2Spirit]

When observing the specs of most of the recent cars,

all the European cars comes with low displacement mills that are either turbo or bi-turbo

whereas if u look at JDM cars all of them are naturally aspirated and/or high displacement mills.

What is the reason behind these 2 different philosophies ?

Edited April 22, 2015 by B2Spirit

[Supra_Natural]

When observing the specs of most of the recent cars,

all the European cars comes with low displacement mills that are either turbo or bi-turbo

whereas if u look at JDM cars all of them are naturally aspirated and/or high displacement mills.

What is the reason behind these 2 different philosophies ?

My first guess would be reliability/durability, the Japs have a habit of only introducing a technology after they've tested it and retested it and ensured that they can make it work without a problem for a long time. The euros on the other hand are all about the latest and greatest whizz bang tech, they like to push boundaries but they don't necessarily pay a lot of attention to how well the car will still be doing in 10 years (With the possible exception of Mercedes Benz, but even they lost their one time reputation for solidity/durability thanks to profit driven decision making in the late 90s/early 2000s

[Rumesh88]

Another reason behind the Euro car manufacturers' total shift towards turbo charged engines comes from their focus on performance oriented cars compared to JDMs. In their attempt to meet the current/future emission and economy targets while maintaining the performance at the same level, Euro manufacturers have found a solution in turbo-charged engines which are capable of delivering peak torque at lower revs like 1500 RPM. In contrast, JDMs produced for the mass market are econo-boxes anyway with performance considered as secondary factor. So Japanese manufacturers are addressing the issue of emission and economy targets with improvements on the proven technology of the naturally aspirated engine. For example use of Atkinson cycle in Toyota hybrid engines.

[Gummybr]

It is mainly to do with emission legislations in Europe, if you read their articles the general public care a lot about smaller engine vehicles. The Japs are not far behind them as you can see that they are also developing the smaller capacity engines (1.6 turbo).

They've even downsized the big car engines as well, the V12 AMG SLS is no more and now its a V8 Twin Turbo, same goes for the Lamborghini's as well.

[The Don]

This is also turbo technology has evolved to a point now with things like variable geometry turbo, you can deliver an experience very close to a naturally aspirated engine. Turbos are now used not just to gain power but deliver great fuel efficiency because you are essentially harnessing power which would otherwise be lost.

I'm sure the Japanese cars are not too far behind. They used to do this quite a lot with Kei cars so its not a completely alien concept.

[Gummybr]

Something I forgot to mention here is the case of marketing Infiniti in Europe, the media were crying out for smaller engined cars, specially diesels. They had only the 3.0 v6 diesel in their line up, they ended up tagging along with Merc and got the Mercs 2.1l engine and then the media keeps saying its underpowered and rough etc.

It's kinda funny but that's how it works in Europe.

[Magnum]

My first guess would be reliability/durability, the Japs have a habit of only introducing a technology after they've tested it and retested it and ensured that they can make it work without a problem for a long time. The euros on the other hand are all about the latest and greatest whizz bang tech, they like to push boundaries but they don't necessarily pay a lot of attention to how well the car will still be doing in 10 years (With the possible exception of Mercedes Benz, but even they lost their one time reputation for solidity/durability thanks to profit driven decision making in the late 90s/early 2000s

If i remember right, Japs test their technology for 18 months where as the Euros test their new technology for 6 months or something

[Magnum]

On the topic of JDM small turbocharged engines, Suzuki has unveiled a new 1.4L engine

[Magnum]

Suzuki has a 660CC turbo engine as well which is found in the Every vans

[B2Spirit]

Apparently Toyota/Lexus Group finally launched one of their own (8AR-FTS) with the NX.

According to wiki, It is a "2.0L turbocharged direct-injected member the AR family, fitted with VVT-iW it is able to operate in both the Otto and a modified-Atkinson cycle".

And it says it has a "The twin-scroll turbocharger" that was developed in house. (http://www.torquenews.com/1083/2015-nx-200t-lexus-2-liter-turbo-engine-companys-most-important-decade)

So maybe it will flow through to the rest of the line up.

Edited April 23, 2015 by B2Spirit

[kush]

Turbo engines due to higher efficiency has better power / economy balance and also better emissions.

Lower displacement engines and low fuel consumption / emissions have tax advantages in some European countries.

Better fuel quality, lubricant quality and climate conditions contribute to more reliability on the engines. Technically this should apply to JDMs too.

[iRage]

Apparently Toyota/Lexus Group finally launched one of their own (8AR-FTS) with the NX.

So maybe it will flow through to the rest of the line up.

Yes..the NX 200T comes with the 8AR-FTS. It is a surprisingly nice car to drive...has a bit of Toyota-ish almost numb feel to it but still nice to drive. As for rolling it through...the next gen RX that was introduced has a 200T....and Toyota does seem to be introducing Turbo variants of more standard models.The Auris got a Turbo version. There were special performance editions of the Vitz and Mark X that were turbo charged. The rumor is that the next gen Mark X will have a Turbo variant along with a Hybrid version. Kind of like the Skyline with its 200GT-t (which "feels" a bit heavy around bends but goes like a bat out of hell) and 3xx Hybrids

[john cooper]

soon we will see 1 cylinder bi turbo or quad turbo

[Kavvz]

Yes..the NX 200T comes with the 8AR-FTS. It is a surprisingly nice car to drive...has a bit of Toyota-ish almost numb feel to it but still nice to drive. As for rolling it through...the next gen RX that was introduced has a 200T....and Toyota does seem to be introducing Turbo variants of more standard models.The Auris got a Turbo version. There were special performance editions of the Vitz and Mark X that were turbo charged. The rumor is that the next gen Mark X will have a Turbo variant along with a Hybrid version. Kind of like the Skyline with its 200GT-t (which "feels" a bit heavy around bends but goes like a bat out of hell) and 3xx Hybrids

Just googled the Skyline 200GT-t based on your post and it has 350 Nm of torque apparently. VERY interesting. Its probably going to be expensive though.The engine in question was apparently developed by Daimler and lent to Nissan as part of their alliance. Weird as its what Mercedes are putting into the C-Class. Seems a bit counter productive to me to lend an engine that's in current use to their competition, but what do I know...

[Gummybr]

Just googled the Skyline 200GT-t based on your post and it has 350 Nm of torque apparently. VERY interesting. Its probably going to be expensive though.The engine in question was apparently developed by Daimler and lent to Nissan as part of their alliance. Weird as its what Mercedes are putting into the C-Class. Seems a bit counter productive to me to lend an engine that's in current use to their competition, but what do I know...

Its called technology sharing, they wont stop with engines cars on same platform are on the way. The speculated MB Double cab is going to be built by Nissan and it will be based on the Navara. Many manufacturers adopt this route as of late since some have expertise on some subjects and others on something else. Same way the Mitusbishi Minicab is a Nissan (van); this you may say is about badge engineering but they have other things like market share etc in their minds.

[The Don]

Just googled the Skyline 200GT-t based on your post and it has 350 Nm of torque apparently. VERY interesting. Its probably going to be expensive though.The engine in question was apparently developed by Daimler and lent to Nissan as part of their alliance. Weird as its what Mercedes are putting into the C-Class. Seems a bit counter productive to me to lend an engine that's in current use to their competition, but what do I know...

Well that way Daimler recovers their development investment faster. To be honest Mercedes Benz in most segments does not directly compete with Nissan.

Plus cars are more about packaging these days rather than a single component. And Nissan would not use it as a selling point.

Having said that Nissan using a Mercedes engine for me is a negative rather than a positive. This whole flow of Renault technology into Nissan hasn't always helped particularly in the Diesel engine frontier. Once arguably the best Diesel engines to come out of the Japan....

[Kavvz]

Well that way Daimler recovers their development investment faster. To be honest Mercedes Benz in most segments does not directly compete with Nissan.

Plus cars are more about packaging these days rather than a single component. And Nissan would not use it as a selling point.

Having said that Nissan using a Mercedes engine for me is a negative rather than a positive. This whole flow of Renault technology into Nissan hasn't always helped particularly in the Diesel engine frontier. Once arguably the best Diesel engines to come out of the Japan....

Well the C-Class would compete with an Inifinity Q50 / Nissan Skyline won't it? And to be honest while its kinda cool to have a nice shiny new Merc C-Class to show off to the neighbours, the Skyline / Q50 would be the better car to have IMO, despite not having the same bling value.

I didn't know Nissan had good diesel engines? Pardon my ignorance, but I always thought the Europeans ( BMW, Merc & VW) were the ones who had the superior diesel engines available?

Edited April 24, 2015 by Kavvz

[iRage]

Just googled the Skyline 200GT-t based on your post and it has 350 Nm of torque apparently. VERY interesting. Its probably going to be expensive though.The engine in question was apparently developed by Daimler and lent to Nissan as part of their alliance. Weird as its what Mercedes are putting into the C-Class. Seems a bit counter productive to me to lend an engine that's in current use to their competition, but what do I know...

The one I test drove which was a few weeks after it was introduced was the entry level 200GT-T (still pretty well spec'd). As equipped it came in at around 4.4mil yen incl.reg + sales tax. There are two or three other grades that I think starts off at about the 4-4.2mil yen mark.

Well the C-Class would compete with an Inifinity Q50 / Nissan Skyline won't it? And to be honest while its kinda cool to have a nice shiny new Merc C-Class to show off to the neighbours, the Skyline / Q50 would be the better car to have IMO, despite not having the same bling value.

I didn't know Nissan had good diesel engines? Pardon my ignorance, but I always thought the Europeans ( BMW, Merc & VW) were the ones who had the superior diesel engines available?

Does the Q50 come with the Turbo engines ? Thought I remember reading on SpeedHunters or some other forum about the 200GT-T equivalent and a similar prototype that Nissan USA/Infinity displayed at a motorshow not going to be there out of Japan <or in some regions>. Off the top if my head I thought the Q50s came with the v6s (ICE and Hybrid).

Nissan HAD good diesel engines but now most of them are Renault sourced/designed/developed. But yeah...the Europeans I believe had a lot more upto date tech in their diesel engines compared to the Japanese but they weren't all as durable and long lasting as the Japanese ones.

[Kavvz]

The one I test drove which was a few weeks after it was introduced was the entry level 200GT-T (still pretty well spec'd). As equipped it came in at around 4.4mil yen incl.reg + sales tax. There are two or three other grades that I think starts off at about the 4-4.2mil yen mark.

Does the Q50 come with the Turbo engines ? Thought I remember reading on SpeedHunters or some other forum about the 200GT-T equivalent and a similar prototype that Nissan USA/Infinity displayed at a motorshow not going to be there out of Japan <or in some regions>. Off the top if my head I thought the Q50s came with the v6s (ICE and Hybrid).

Nissan HAD good diesel engines but now most of them are Renault sourced/designed/developed. But yeah...the Europeans I believe had a lot more upto date tech in their diesel engines compared to the Japanese but they weren't all as durable and long lasting as the Japanese ones.

Yes, the Q50 currently has a V6 I believe but when I googled the Skyline 200GT-t and saw the Japanese version being introduced with it for 2015, it I just assumed the North American rebadged Q50 would get it too at some point too...

[iRage]

Yes, the Q50 currently has a V6 I believe but when I googled the Skyline 200GT-t and saw the Japanese version being introduced with it for 2015, it I just assumed the North American rebadged Q50 would get it too at some point too...

They are introducing the pure gasoline V6 in Japan ? Even when they already have the 3.5L Hybrid version pushing like 360 HP...that is a rather bold move. On the other hand, I can understand Infiniti cutting out the pure gasoline engines V6 from the Q50 and stick with just the Hybrids (which is the same as the JDMs and boasts better performance specs than the ICE) and introduce the 2.0L turbo.

[Sampath Gunasekera]

Nissan HAD good diesel engines but now most of them are Renault sourced/designed/developed. But yeah...the Europeans I believe had a lot more upto date tech in their diesel engines compared to the Japanese but they weren't all as durable and long lasting as the Japanese ones.

That might happened to Volvo S40 1.9D Diesel cars in year 2000. This model was a big failure. Volvo replaced our ones (as I heard total 8 cars here) engine at free of cost under warranty. This diesel car is fun to drive like a petrol one, gives good fuel economy , but big failure of upgrading Volvo's technology there. Two years ago one car was on Autolanka for sale and it was fitted with a Toyota diesel engine. Mean while we replaced 1C engine with 2C engine in our Toyota Liteace in 1999 and until we sold it after 12 years, nothing did with the engine other than regular maintenance.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Sampath Gunasekera

[Kavvz]

They are introducing the pure gasoline V6 in Japan ? Even when they already have the 3.5L Hybrid version pushing like 360 HP...that is a rather bold move. On the other hand, I can understand Infiniti cutting out the pure gasoline engines V6 from the Q50 and stick with just the Hybrids (which is the same as the JDMs and boasts better performance specs than the ICE) and introduce the 2.0L turbo.

No sorry for the confusion. What I meant was: The Infinity Q50 has a 3.7 V6 currently, and I assumed based on the fact that the Nissan Skyline has a turbo charged 2L engine sourced / licensed from Mercedes for 2015 (the 200GT-t), that the Infinity Q50 would get it (meaning the 2L turbo engine) too at some point...but don't the Nissan Teana and the Skyline already have a 3.5 V6 engine option available?

Edited April 25, 2015 by Kavvz

[iRage]

No sorry for the confusion. What I meant was: The Infinity Q50 has a 3.7 V6 currently, and I assumed based on the fact that the Nissan Skyline has a turbo charged 2L engine sourced / licensed from Mercedes for 2015 (the 200GT-t), that the Infinity Q50 would get it (meaning the 2L turbo engine) too at some point...but don't the Nissan Teana and the Skyline already have a 3.5 V6 engine option available?

Aha ! My bad....I guess I understood it in reverse

The current Teana only comes in 2.5L form (at least in Japan....I guess a QR25DE ?) and I think they dropped the 3.5L with the last model. As for the Skyline the only V6 is the Hybrid...rumor is that the coupe' too will have the same engines...

[The Don]

Well the C-Class would compete with an Inifinity Q50 / Nissan Skyline won't it? And to be honest while its kinda cool to have a nice shiny new Merc C-Class to show off to the neighbours, the Skyline / Q50 would be the better car to have IMO, despite not having the same bling value.

I didn't know Nissan had good diesel engines? Pardon my ignorance, but I always thought the Europeans ( BMW, Merc & VW) were the ones who had the superior diesel engines available?

The Nissan TD series Diesel engines are legendary even in the UK. The TD 27 equiped London Taxi is widely considered the best in the series. Sadly stronger emissions laws changed that.

I think from a longevity and reliability perspective, Japanese Diesel engines are superior to all others. Which brand was better is a question of some debate.

I don't think Mercedes Benz considers Infiniti a threat yet. Its a niche brand with poor market penetration outside the US I guess.